The 365 pod

0:00
Hi everyone, and welcome to the 365 pod.

0:02
This is a podcast run by myself and a couple of people from 365 Talent Portal.

0:08
And we, the aim of the podcast really is to talk about Microsoft Insights, Specter Space, and how to teach people to leverage more knowledge and user sharing within the ecosystem.

0:18
And so today we have Matt Batterbee.

0:24
Hi, Matt.

0:25
Yeah.

0:25
So obviously you are the Global GTM Solutions Director at Packs 8.

0:32
You’re very well credited in the ecosystem.

0:34
I’ve known you for a couple of years now just for various conferences, as have most of the Talent 365 portal team.

0:41
And we know that well, the reason we wanted you on is because you’ve got a great understanding of working with numerous partners.

0:48
You’re coming from a different perspective and you’ve obviously been incredibly successful at such a young age.

0:52
So welcome to the podcast, Matt.

0:54
Thank you.

0:55
Thank you very much for having me on and thanks for the thanks for the warm welcome.

0:57
I feel like you’ve oversold me a little bit, but let’s, let’s do it.

1:02
I’m sorry.

1:02
That’s what it’s about.

1:03
You know, we’re gassing people of I guess, but yeah, we’ll, we’ll go straight into a couple of the questions.

1:08
Matt, I just thank you so much for being on the podcast in the 1st place.

1:12
But one of the things for those who might know not know you in terms of our audience is, you know, what’s one thing that you can tell the listeners that you think they wouldn’t necessarily expect from you?

1:25
That’s something a bit different, like a personal hobby or, you know, just give me the context.

1:30
So yeah, I mean, I’ve got, I’ve got, I’ve got 2 that I don’t think a lot of people know about me.

1:34
So one is I absolutely love country music.

1:37
So I always, anytime they the country artist comes over to the UK, I’m normally going to see them with my wife, which is awesome.

1:46
And the second thing is I just love going out hiking.

1:49
I love going out on my own in the mountains or with my dogs.

1:53
My dogs keep me company as well.

1:56
But yeah, no, no headphones.

1:57
Just listen to the nature and just enjoy a bit of peace.

2:02
That’s, that’s my little hobby.

2:04
Definitely.

2:04
I I definitely agree with you on the, on the hiking thing.

2:06
I can’t a lot of my friends listen to country music.

2:09
I’ve been to a Tim McGraw concert once in Georgia, America.

2:12
So that was kind of cool.

2:14
It was pretty, that was actually my first ever concert.

2:16
And I’ve been to a few American country music, Texan, Georgian, where they do all the, they ride the bulls and stuff.

2:23
I’ve been there as well.

2:24
So.

2:25
Oh, cool.

2:26
Yeah, no, I need to, I definitely need to up it a notch.

2:29
I’ve been to concerts in the UK.

2:31
We we haven’t done 1 yet over in the States.

2:33
So that’s definitely on our list.

2:35
We want to go to Nashville.

2:35
That’s all that’s all To Do List.

2:37
That’s what you’ve got to do.

2:38
You have to go to Tennessee.

2:39
You’ve got to go to a rodeo as well.

2:42
But that, that’s pretty cool.

2:43
Thanks for sharing that, Matt, on the hub on the hiking.

2:45
Obviously that’s a passion.

2:47
We both definitely share.

2:48
I think the best, the best thing about that is when you go up a mountain, you don’t have any signals.

2:53
So although there is there’s data on Everest, but not apparently in the late district.

2:58
So I don’t really, I can’t tell them the two, but that’s I guess why we all like it.

3:02
Yeah.

3:03
Excellent.

3:04
And then you’ve been, correct me if I’m wrong, in the text base since 2017.

3:09
It might be a little bit earlier than that.

3:13
So obviously you’ve come from a different perspective.

3:15
Tell people a little bit about your history and how you ended up working in this space without coming from an IT or degree background.

3:23
Really.

3:24
Yeah.

3:24
So I mean, you know, I’ve done a number of different roles in the past.

3:29
I mean, I even was in Army training Once Upon a time and then got injured and was kind of thinking of leaving anyway.

3:36
And then I was a gym instructor, so I did the fitness industry side of things as well.

3:41
So I’ve definitely always been a good people person.

3:43
I think if you can get up and dance around or do a spinning class in front of people, you can talk to people in the boardroom, it’s really easy.

3:50
And then, you know, I wait for a startup business, you know, help them build out a call center and build out those policies and procedures.

3:58
So I kind of came from a very unique background of doing multiple things in different industries, even healthcare and so on, and then saw this role within, within Microsoft as a as a contractor and you know, for why not, why not give it a go and see what happens?

4:13
And I think what kind of impressed in the interview was I wasn’t afraid to challenge, even though I probably maybe knew less than the people in the interview, but they they also tried to challenge me on something in my industry that I worked in at the time.

4:29
And I was able to kind of push back and say, well, actually I know my industry and here’s the here’s the facts and figures.

4:36
So, yeah, I mean, you know, coming from a different background, it was really interested in when I actually started at Microsoft and and there was a couple of people in the team that had been around Microsoft for a while and then a couple of us that kind of coming in fresh from completely different industries.

4:52
And it was really interesting to hear that those, you know, those comments of what we’ve done it like this for so long.

4:58
And it was me and the other guy who were coming in from the outside kind of going, why do you do it like that?

5:04
Why?

5:05
Why is this happening and why how can we improve this?

5:08
And we were the ones kind of looking for ways in which we can improve, whereas so many others were kind of looking at that status quo.

5:14
And so it was, it was good coming in.

5:17
And I, and I think that’s where I was able to stand out somewhat is I maybe did things a little bit different to the traditional way of doing things because I just looked at it completely differently to to a lot of people.

5:28
Yeah.

5:29
And you’ve not come from that the same cut of cloth.

5:31
So you’ve not had that blueprint internally where it works this way.

5:34
It works this way if you tend to come in from a different perspective and just be more disruptive and as you said, challenging.

5:39
I guess that’s a really important point to make to our listeners is don’t be afraid to push your gut feeling and if someone’s telling you something or if you’re coming from a different perspective, challenge them on that.

5:49
Definitely.

5:50
You work amongst hundreds of partners and have done since 2017.

5:55
What would you say was the biggest challenge that they face compared to pre pandemic or what’s changed over the, I mean, we’ve got other markets changed quite considerably.

6:05
But for you from the partners perspective, what, what would you say is the biggest challenge for them at the moment?

6:10
I, I definitely think in terms of depending on what areas that they’re focusing on, be it AI, be it even dynamics and solutions like that, it’s definitely a lack of talent in, in the industry, which means that they are getting outpriced very easily.

6:25
I think, you know, larger partners or larger companies that have that budget can spend a little bit more compared to a, to a smaller business.

6:32
So definitely being outpriced.

6:34
But I definitely think since COVID, you know, there’s been a massive shift in where people can do their roles.

6:40
And I’m a prime example of that.

6:41
Even when I was at Ingram Micro or even now at Packs 8, part of the Microsoft corporate teams of both, I was the only person located in the UK doing those roles.

6:51
Everyone else was in was in North America.

6:53
So being able to do a role with a lot of North America focus, but do it from North Wales in my small little town that he has one Rd.

7:03
a castle and a beach.

7:03
You know, being able to do that.

7:06
Exactly what more do you need?

7:07
I’ve got, you know, I’ve got everything I need right here.

7:09
But you know, the industry’s definitely changed.

7:12
So I think in terms of those challenges, it is worth looking even outside of the UKI think it frustrates me the most when I see companies saying, I don’t know, let’s say they’re located in Manchester or something like that and they want someone that can go to the office five days a week.

7:28
And you know, I I kind of question that and say, well, no wonder you’re being out priced.

7:35
You know, especially somewhere like that.

7:36
It’s a big city, there’s a lot of competition, there’s a lot of companies there, but being able to stretch favor a field is, is something that would be extremely valuable to to any business, especially whether it’s places in the UK that potentially don’t have a higher salary bracket.

7:52
You know, if you’re if you’re in London, it’s a high salary bracket, but you hire someone up north like you and I maybe we’re a bit cheaper definitely.

8:03
Or even, you know, like I say, outside of the UKI think that’s where people can get some some strong talent as well.

8:09
Definitely, I would 100% agree with that.

8:10
And one other thing about a lot of the companies I’ve worked with over the past seven years, I guess is they were so used to having people come in the office.

8:19
And I get that companies have invested a lot in these lovely office spaces and I love that they have that.

8:23
But don’t be afraid to move away from this, this old style model.

8:27
And yeah, if you hired somebody in London who is on 7080 K, but in theory you can get somebody who’s based in Doncaster for less money and they probably could get into London quicker than from someone can get from one side of London to the other.

8:41
So that’s also something I think companies need to be more open minded.

8:43
If you want somebody in the office.

8:44
Don’t be afraid.

8:46
Now the train strikes are ever to look bigger and amongst the country.

8:49
Because I did some training for AI the other week and I got home back to Newcastle from London before the directors got home to the other part of London because there was all the, the delays in London and I emailed them.

9:02
I was like, do you ever get home safe?

9:03
And they were like, you’re home already?

9:04
I was like, yeah.

9:05
And they couldn’t fathom that because it was quicker for me to get basically to Scotland.

9:10
So yeah, I, I do, I definitely agree.

9:12
You know, look to the South Americas, there’s some amazing take talent from the universities coming out in Rio.

9:18
You know, if you’re a Spanish speaking country, that also mean we can bring in bigger implementations because you’ve got that multilingual style.

9:25
Yes, an accent, it’s an accent.

9:26
But at the end of the day, it doesn’t make a difference.

9:29
I think that’s really good advice to to give to companies.

9:31
Don’t be afraid to look to other countries.

9:35
Is there anything advice wise that you would say?

9:38
Like they can overcome being out price when they are competing for for salaries and staff?

9:43
Because we know ourselves post pandemic, some of the bigger partners for charging 150K packages or even base salaries for someone who only had five years experience because they they had the budgets and then your little small to medium business who has been around for a couple of years, they can’t compete with that.

10:00
So what advice would you give those partners?

10:03
I think it’s, I’d say it’s sort of having less of a strict kind of requirement for the person taking on that role.

10:12
And I think, I mean, I’ve even got an example of that where I remember we were hiring someone from a company I was at.

10:19
And in the job description it said, I think it was 10 years experience.

10:24
And I kind of asked the question, said, could I do that job?

10:28
And the person actually responded out.

10:29
And I, I didn’t realize I was in a way that sounded like I was interested in the role, but they kind of said, oh, that role’s kind of beneath where you’re at.

10:37
And I said, I, I don’t have 10 years experience, I don’t have half that experience.

10:42
So if I can do that role and it’s beneath me, then we can, you know, we don’t have to have someone with 10 years experience.

10:50
And also when I look at Microsoft, I think it’s great.

10:52
And I, I look forward to the day that I can say I’ve got 20 plus years experience with this industry and, and you know, be seen as even more of a full leader in the industry.

11:02
But when you look at the Microsoft licensing doesn’t look anything like it did two years ago, let alone 10 years ago.

11:10
So sometimes having that fresher knowledge is actually going to be extremely valuable.

11:15
In fact, it’s funny, you know, with the requirements from Microsoft for some of the programs for people to attain the fundamentals certifications, the people that fail those more are the ones that have been around it longer because actually they remember how it was.

11:32
So let’s say Dynamics has changed and buttons have moved places and they’ve made it more productive.

11:37
Actually Dynamics looks completely different.

11:39
So those people that have been around it longer are actually more likely to fail those suits, you know, because they remember what how it was.

11:47
So I think having that balance is is ideal.

11:50
But yeah, I mean, again, you you get someone in who’s a bit more fresher to the industry, fresh ideas.

11:55
They’ve not got any bad habits in the industry as well.

11:58
Like all these things can be even more valuable sometimes than 10 plus years experience.

12:04
I, I definitely agree with that.

12:05
And I know that there is a bit big movement, especially coming down from Microsoft, from part from the distributors like yourself, where it’s like, look at the industry experience, look at the soft skills, because I say this to my customers all the time.

12:17
You can’t train personality, but you can train technology.

12:20
So think about, you know, somebody who’s driven, who’s more interested, who’s innovative, and they might have the industry experience.

12:27
And I know a lot of the partners are moving towards that mentality.

12:31
I guess on the point of adopting fresh ideas or being more flexible in the job descriptions you mentioned, don’t put a figure down for for 10 years.

12:40
Don’t be fussy on location, you know?

12:43
Is there anything else that you would want to add to that just to give them a little more knowledge?

12:49
Yeah, I think it’s just being very open minded.

12:52
I think is, is the way that I would, you know, like you know, for example, I’ve never, well, I did one week of a degree course and knew that I was not going to last for 3-4 years, however long a degree.

13:06
I don’t even know how long a degree is.

13:08
So that’s not great.

13:11
But you know, I didn’t go to university.

13:14
I at the time didn’t see, see the need in me.

13:16
I was quite happy in what I was doing in the fitness industry and I think I was going to university to do that.

13:22
But again, I, you know, I see people putting down these roles where, you know, a degree is required and sometimes nothing specific, just the degree.

13:33
And sometimes, like, I have to question, well, why, you know, do you just want someone who’s in debt?

13:38
Like, you know, I can’t think of why.

13:41
Why is that degree?

13:42
And you’re not even, you know, I get it if it’s, I don’t know, maybe it’s a business leadership role and they’d like someone to have a business leadership degree.

13:48
But sometimes it’s not specific.

13:50
They just want someone who’s been to university.

13:52
That doesn’t make sense to me when I think life experience can be even more valuable sometimes.

13:58
Definitely, definitely.

13:59
And people I know that and there’s a lot of movement I think from people that packed 8 and various other organizations who would, they’ve mentioned about hiring people from apprenticeship level and all of those take about the skills.

14:13
I personally did history and political science.

14:14
How would that interjects to me being an alliance manager for a training partner and an implementation partner?

14:20
I do not understand how that works, but you know, so it also shows if they want a degree, which current companies shouldn’t, you know, don’t say computer science.

14:31
You know, how many people in the finance industry now work in technology because they want all of the attention to detail.

14:38
So don’t just look at the university graduates, the open minded.

14:41
Yeah, 100% definitely.

14:42
I agree with that.

14:43
And this is it.

14:44
And I feel like I’m in the perfect role where I am in in.

14:48
And what I mean by that is in an indirect provider, because, and I think this stems back from even being a fitness instructor.

14:54
The thing that I used to get out of being a fitness instructor was I love helping people.

14:58
And in the role that I’m in now, I get to help businesses.

15:02
And then, and I always say that someone asked me the other day, how do, how would I describe my job to like my Nana who knows nothing about technology.

15:11
I said, I would say I’m a helper.

15:13
I, I help these businesses here, which helps Pacsape, which helps Microsoft.

15:17
I am just the helper in the middle.

15:18
And I think those skills of just being passionate about helping other people and whether it’s, you know, their goals and getting in shape, that’s helped me along this journey of where I’m at.

15:28
And those skills help me now, even though they are completely different industries.

15:34
Yeah, I, I suppose that’s such a good point.

15:36
Look at the value and what somebody values when you’re interviewing them.

15:39
What motivates this person?

15:40
What do they care about?

15:41
Ask them about their own hobbies, you know, if they just like sitting at a computer, that’s not bad.

15:46
Most likely be a developer.

15:47
If they like to be more active and challenging, maybe they want to be challenged and more people facing.

15:52
There’s quite a lot of, you know, don’t look be a shy away from the soft, soft skills.

15:58
I would definitely say, yeah, I agree with everything you’ve said there earlier.

16:02
You mentioned about bad habits, you know, from a either consultant developer perspective or just the partner perspective.

16:08
Is there, you know, in terms of any of the bad habits, habits that you’ve observed in the industry, you know, what can partners and end users do to eliminate these and what would they be really?

16:19
Yeah, That’s quite a good question.

16:20
Sorry.

16:21
Yeah, no, it’s a, it’s a good question.

16:23
I think, you know, I, I see the bad habits all the time and I, I, I don’t see it as it’s anyone’s particular fault.

16:31
I think Microsoft evolves very quickly.

16:34
I think a lot changes very quickly, but also partners are also working very hard to keep their customers and, and you know, offer more value to their customers.

16:43
And so also trying to keep up with that with the technology, with the programs from Microsoft, it can become very, very difficult.

16:50
And I think in terms of, you know, being able to kind of maximize the Microsoft partnership is definitely something that I, I think can bring a lot of value to partners, whether it’s, you know, the market in consultations and free mark go campaigns in a box and even the technical pre sales and deployment services, these kind of resources from Microsoft.

17:10
I mean, there’s up with the $400,000 worth of investment that partners can access as a Microsoft partner.

17:17
So they can, they can really tap into a lot of resources and as they start to tap into those resources, they’re gonna see how they can help educate their own people internally and build up from within their business as well.

17:29
So yes, there’s a, there’s a ton of value in to the business in accessing those resources, whether it’s, you know, the market and so on, it’s going to attract more customers.

17:38
You’re going to maximize every single customer opportunity.

17:40
But actually in really accessing those, you can help build up your team internally as well and help build a stronger team.

17:48
And then you start to almost keep building upwards, so you’re not looking to hire people up here because you’ve built them up and you’re looking to hire down here more.

17:58
And then you can get more entry level people and I guess as well, that’ll be a way to tackle being outbidded by other competition.

18:06
And a big point that we always talk about from the value proposition side and to really improve staff retention is about training.

18:13
So, you know, a lot of companies these days have a couple of hours set, set aside a month where their employees have to stay up to date with the latest technology or, you know, if you want to get this certification or this course.

18:23
So yeah, definitely.

18:25
I guess that’s two points that is really don’t underestimate training and staying up to date.

18:30
We have to.

18:30
I mean, there’s a new release every 30 seconds.

18:32
Who knows what Co pilot’s going to be like soon.

18:35
It’s changed since last week 100%.

18:37
And there’s nothing more when you are, you know, maybe it’s someone at a lower level in an organization.

18:42
There’s nothing worse than every time a senior role becomes available and external is hired because it kind of kills your expectation in terms of getting that promotion and earning your way up the ladder.

18:55
When every time a role.

18:56
And it’s not to say you’re going to go from, I don’t know, working in the call center to being a corporate vice president of the company, but it’s if every time these roles become available, they just go straight external.

19:07
You’re not, it’s not even a case of being out priced.

19:10
You’re just you’re not giving anyone a career development plan that’s realistic.

19:15
They’ll go somewhere else that even offers that.

19:16
So sometimes, you know, money is important to everyone.

19:19
I’m not going to not going to be stupid on that one.

19:22
But I mean, I, I’ve moved roles for less money, but with higher progression opportunities because that’s what motivates me.

19:31
Yes, I need a certain amount of money to look after my family, but you know, I want a long term career that I’m proud of as well.

19:38
And I think if I’m not being given that, then I would look elsewhere over more than just money.

19:45
And I think so, you know, being able to build people up within your organization and promote from within.

19:51
People coming in at the bottom end of the company will also see that happening.

19:55
And other people will talk and tell each other stories of, oh, I was doing your role three years ago and they might have a director title or senior director or VP.

20:03
And those things can be extremely valuable to any business as well.

20:07
Yeah, definitely.

20:08
I I really agree with that.

20:09
I think companies that have that internal and they have not created that glass ceiling.

20:13
They are the companies with a strong retention and their employees feel valued.

20:18
Whereas the organizations who like you said hire externally, they took high salaries everybody to incentivize them to say.

20:24
But then they’re like, well, I’m the amount of times I’ve spoken to people and they’re like, I can’t leave because I’m on a ridiculous salary.

20:29
You know, the company actually, I have a credit card that the company actually pay for my takeaways for my family at the weekend because they couldn’t have that person leave, but they weren’t giving them what the what the person wanted, which was a weekend anyway.

20:40
It was.

20:41
There’s nightmares of like that across the entire market where companies aren’t valuing the person.

20:46
They just see the skill set.

20:48
And again, that’s another point I think we could discuss for another several hours.

20:54
Promoting within it is really key.

20:56
And obviously alongside this training, I guess another point to make on top of that is in terms of the mindset set shift required for the partners to stay relevant at the moment in the changing market.

21:10
Obviously, you know, there’s a couple years ago it was all BC, then it was copilot power platform.

21:15
We saw that.

21:16
Now it’s more going into cyber and more licensing.

21:19
So what well, can you discuss the mindset shift that you think is required at the moment for these partners to stay up to date, to stay keen and to stay attractive to their to the consumers?

21:30
Yeah, I think there’s got to be shift in the way that partners are going and selling to their customers.

21:35
It can’t just be, I’m going to sell you this product.

21:40
You know, there’s a lot out there, but also there’s so many more challenges now for an SMB more than ever before because of how much technology is on the market.

21:47
I mean, the average SMB business uses 7 to 10 different vendors for that technology, which kind of goes to explain why it’s around 78% of SMBs have been hit with a cyber attack in some way, shape or form.

22:03
There’s so many entry points.

22:05
So what I’m getting at in a long, short way is, you know, it’s how partners can really just get to know their customers and get to know not just the IT decision maker, but the business decision makers within their customers to understand well, what challenges are they all facing?

22:20
You know, an IT decision maker isn’t going to know the challenges that a salesperson’s having with the CRM system is a perfect example.

22:27
And being able to have those different conversations and build those relationships with it, you know, no, no, especially in SMB, no customers got the budget to buy everything all at once.

22:38
But being able to build out an 18 month, two year pipeline with your existing customers helps you stay sticky.

22:45
You’re going to continue to add that value.

22:46
You’re going to continue to help that customer revolve.

22:49
Essentially, you’re going to help them grow their business, which puts you in that sphere of your trusted advisor.

22:55
You’re not just a reseller.

22:57
You, you are their trusted advisor, almost like a consultant for them.

23:01
It’s going to really help them.

23:03
I think that’s how customers can stay sticky and we see it all the time.

23:08
You know, customers that are buying just one workload from Microsoft are the least sticky.

23:13
They will just jump ship for a little bit better price.

23:17
Whereas if you’re adding value, services, other solutions wrapping around that, you’re not losing that customer.

23:25
You become very difficult to leave in a good way, not that you’re kind of locking in your customers in a good way.

23:31
You are adding that value and you don’t even in, in this day and age, you don’t even have to, you know, deliver everything.

23:37
You know, not, I don’t want to do a sales pitch here for packs 8, but you know, we have professional services that we help partners with and other indirect providers too.

23:45
Want to be fair here, other indirect providers have those, those professionals as well on the BBC.

23:49
Don’t worry about that.

23:51
Yeah, yeah, Jaffa Cakes are good, but there are other brands of cake biscuits that you can have.

23:57
But yeah, so I just think you know that and just partnering up with other partners, you know, I see all the time at the Dynamics events, you see these partners that work together because wonders ERP brilliantly.

24:07
The other one does CRM brilliantly.

24:09
So when they have opportunities for each other, they pass them over and they work together.

24:13
And I think being able to partner up and have that partner network, you’re going to be able to offer everything.

24:19
And I think that’s how partners can really add a ton of value.

24:23
It’s not about being able to deliver everything.

24:25
It’s about being able to just ask the questions and understand and, and take those answers away and don’t be afraid to really spend time on nurturing that relationship.

24:34
And, you know, rather than jumping to the next cell call, ask everything.

24:37
From our perspective, we started working with the company, I think it was in February.

24:41
I met them at a conference.

24:43
We helped them on a couple of recruitment roles various places across the UK and then they asked us all, do you guys do training?

24:49
Then we did AI training for them and then when recently when we were conducting the AI training, we realised that they have a system, dynamic system that hasn’t been correctly adopted.

24:59
Like none of the users are using it.

25:00
So the other how to.

25:01
So now we understand that that’s a need for them and we’ve already got a user adoption programme that we have that’s till to any world, any company, it’s very flexible.

25:09
We can, you know, we can help them.

25:11
But if I hadn’t spent so much time with this client nurturing that relationship, asking those funnel questions, why is that?

25:17
What is the issue?

25:18
What is the biggest predicament you’re facing right now that is stopping your company growing?

25:23
Well, what does that mean for you?

25:24
And really finding out that value has meant that we’ve, you know, we’ve done that, we’ve helped them considerably and also means hopefully at the end of the year that dynamic system has spent an absolute fortune with isn’t going to go down the drain.

25:36
And and this is it.

25:38
I mean, you know, like security is the is one of the big, I know copilot and AI, but security is the a big hot topic from Microsoft.

25:46
And, and The funny thing is, you know, again, I’ll I’ll always end up using a dynamics example, but you can slap on different security solutions and so on.

25:54
But if that business and you don’t ask the question, but they are actually, you know, every salesperson has their own Excel spreadsheet that they’re using as CRM system that they also share with their own personal OneDrive.

26:06
So they can do a little bit of work from home like those things.

26:09
It’s you can do all the security you want.

26:13
They could be emailing that to the wrong person if it’s an Excel or anything like that.

26:17
So you know, again, it’s, it’s those data silos, it’s those kind of things.

26:20
So, but you’re never going to uncover that unless you speak to the sales team and and you speak to those leaders in the business.

26:27
So yeah, I think we’ve with partners.

26:30
The the big thing that I think is a the big bet for not just FY25, but the future is you have to get to know your customers.

26:38
You have to, you know, be able to offer those solutions right across the board from Microsoft.

26:43
And you know, that’s going to be how you’re going to add real value, stay sticky to your customers and also attracting a lot of net new as well.

26:52
And I think even understanding what industries the customers are in, every industry has different challenges, different line of business solutions that they potentially require.

27:01
But again, you’re not going to know that unless you speak to them and understand what what do you do?

27:07
Actually, you know, what do you do?

27:09
It’s a very simple question, but so many partners don’t ask.

27:13
They just, oh, you want 20 seats of business premium?

27:16
Great, I can do that for you.

27:18
Yeah, yeah.

27:19
And I guess once they feel more valued, the customer, they’ll continue to come back to you and you’ll probably get better job satisfaction because you actually know you’re making a difference.

27:29
And people like ourselves, who are people, people they care about, people, you know, they want to support everybody.

27:34
They’re the ones who are the the best of this world because they do actually genuinely care.

27:38
So don’t be afraid to take 5 minutes extra with a customer to ask those questions to find out a little bit about them.

27:44
100% agreed with that one as well.

27:47
I guess we we’ve kind of run through the SMB, the cyber attack point and everything like that.

27:52
Is there anything else that you would want to add to that as because it is such a big topic from Microsoft at the moment?

27:58
Yeah, I think, you know, especially in SMB, you often hear the we’re too small comment around SMBs and being too small for a cyber attack.

28:08
And I think it’s because when you look at the news, it’s, you know, in the UK you have JD Sports, that’s massive company date, you know, millions of customers and, you know, data being breached and so on.

28:21
When you’re small, you’re just too small to be reported on because maybe it’s a business nobody’s heard of or, you know, not many people have heard of or anything like that.

28:29
Whereas when it’s JD Sports, when it’s the NHS, when it’s huge organizations or the government, it’s going to be a big news headline and something that people will go and click on.

28:39
It’s just clickbait articles at the end of the day when you’ve got a a massive company.

28:44
So yeah, I mean, just because you’re a small business, even a one man band it, it doesn’t matter.

28:50
You know, you can still be targeted and it’s still very costly for a data breach of client information even to an SMB.

28:58
So just by spending a little bit more to have the right solutions can save you a lot in the long run.

29:05
I think is the is the big thing that it’s the same with, you know, you buy cloves, you buy cheap, you buy twice.

29:11
To which I have, I have learned recently needing to go out and buy more new socks for when I go on holiday tomorrow because all my socks had holes in because I bought cheap.

29:21
So I was told off and I’ve bought better socks.

29:24
It’s the same with technology.

29:26
Well, I actually always buy men’s socks now because they’re thicker than women’s socks and women’s socks you can honestly, they’ve got gone in about 6 months, so normal.

29:34
But I always nick my boyfriend’s socks are.

29:37
So I do agree.

29:38
It’s not that it’s even cheaper, it’s just that the quality is better for the for the men’s stuff as well.

29:42
That’s an issue in itself.

29:43
We won’t discuss that today, but is there anything else you think that is really important for our listeners in terms of hiring advice or, or anything that it’s important you think that you should you want to mention from your perspective?

29:56
Yeah, I think honestly, I think sometimes, you know, take a chance on people.

30:01
I think that, you know, you mentioned it earlier around getting to know the person and getting to know what makes them tick a little bit.

30:08
You know, what are they passionate about?

30:09
And I think, you know, I’ve been very lucky as well as working hard.

30:12
I think I’ve been lucky that I’ve, you know, when I’ve been having conversations with organizations that have wanted to hire me, I think I’ve highlighted my own personality probably more than my experience in a lot of the times.

30:24
But I’m very goal orientated and I’ve, I’ve hired people in the past, not even just in the tech industry, but just in general that I just like them in the interview.

30:33
I remember when I was a manager in a call center, I remember hiring someone who it was like they’d never used a computer before.

30:42
They were amazed when they received someone’s out of office.

30:45
And I remember, I remember being like, yeah, yeah, that’s an out of office e-mail.

30:49
And they were like, what’s that?

30:51
And like, so but this person in the interview was just incredible.

30:54
And you could tell they were highly motivated.

30:56
They he wanted to provide for his family, you know, like this guy’s going to work hard.

31:01
And he did.

31:01
And now he’s even in a high position in that company.

31:04
And I think, you know, I think sometimes we can get so bogged down with what is written on a resume.

31:10
And I hate that.

31:12
I really hate that.

31:13
I think I, I, I’d love to, if I was going to hire, sorry, go for another job.

31:19
I’d love to not have to send a resume.

31:21
I know you’ve got to, I know it’s the way we do things.

31:27
It’s, it’s saying what you, what they, it’s, it’s, you’re right in what you think they want to hear.

31:33
Let’s face it, when it’s a resume or you know, and I think sometimes it’s taking that chance of someone who, you know, is going to work hard, you know, it’s just going to be a good person and a good fit in the organization, regardless of their skill set today.

31:47
Are they willing to learn?

31:48
Are they willing to put the work in and the effort in to to have those outcomes that you want and or you know, you’re just going to focus on, well, they’ve got 20 years experience.

32:01
Yeah.

32:02
And another point on that well is, is focusing on personality and what their potential could be is if you bring somebody in who has 2025 years experience, who you know, has all the qualifications, ticks all the boxes, but doesn’t have the same personality traits as the people in your team, that person is going to disrupt quite significantly the motivation, the team’s cause.

32:23
And if you’ve everybody’s working from home, people will be reluctant to actually have that team collaboration.

32:28
But if you hire somebody, like you said, on their personality, on their drive, and they get on so well with everybody, then you’ve got that unity as a team, and then your retention improves.

32:37
You know, everybody’s working hard.

32:38
You’ve got a bit of Hummer, which actually is so important these days when you when you’re everyone’s working from home.

32:43
So definitely 2 two points there to to consider just for the partners.

32:48
But yeah, thank you so much for that.

32:50
One of the questions which we always ask at the end of the podcast, I feel like that time’s gone very quickly, but you know, always flies when you’re having fun is about personal failure.

33:01
So we, you know, we want to change people’s mindsets in terms of seeing failure as a negative thing to seeing it as a positive thing.

33:08
And So what is a significant failure that you’ve faced personally or professionally?

33:13
How has it made you feel?

33:15
How did you react?

33:16
And then what were your learnings from that specific situation?

33:19
Yeah, I think, I mean, I failed so much, which probably doesn’t sound good, but everything is a learning experience, I think.

33:27
And it even stems back from, I mean, when I was at 14 years old and I played inline hockey and I tried out for Team Great Britain for the first time, didn’t make the team.

33:37
Second time, didn’t make the team, third time made the team.

33:41
And now I’m able to sit in my office.

33:43
I’ve got my Team GB jersey from when I was younger.

33:45
I’ve got my junior Olympic.

33:47
I, you know, I’ve got a junior Olympic silver medal.

33:50
Like, you know, it’s, you know, being able to, and I think it does come from a young age being able to kind of, you know, play in sports or anything like that, where you’re going to experience that failure, that loss.

34:00
I’m just, well, I’m going to go again next year.

34:02
I know what I need to work on for next year.

34:04
And I’m going to get better.

34:04
I’m going to get faster.

34:05
And I think I’ve just built that into my career, whether it’s hitting, you know, targets that were set or anything like that.

34:13
I think, you know, you’ve got to be able to to fail fast.

34:16
And yeah, I think failure is not a bad thing.

34:20
I think if you go through life and you just get everything that you want, you don’t know how to deal with that, that failure.

34:27
And yeah, for me, failure is just as important as exceeding.

34:33
Yeah.

34:34
You know, I think it is one of those things that I’m just naturally able to kind of bounce back from.

34:42
And I think, you know, that in itself is a bit of a skill.

34:45
I was going to say it’s how you deal with the situation and what not the situation itself, It’s your reaction to it, right?

34:50
And if you just think, oh, well, chin up, charge them out and let’s get on with it.

34:54
Those people that I guess the people that you want to hire and the people that have got that.

34:57
And, and this is it.

34:59
And I remember, it’s like, I remember when I first joined packs 8 and I was asked to put something together for one of my bosses at the time.

35:05
And I did it in the way that a previous boss of mine would have liked to have seen it.

35:11
And then I, and then I got on a call and she gave me, you know, the critique of this is this is how I like to see it.

35:18
Awesome.

35:18
So it’s not necessarily a failure that it’s just it wasn’t how she wanted it.

35:22
So she told me how she wanted it next time.

35:25
And then from then on, everything that she wanted and I delivered.

35:29
She was like perfect every time.

35:31
So it’s being able to also, whether that’s you see that as a failure or not, but just being able to kind of take that criticism and build on it and just make sure you know that you’re you’re doing the right things moving forward.

35:42
So again, maybe not necessarily a failure or such, but it’s just, you know, that be afraid of criticism, I guess.

35:48
Yeah, constructive criticism even sometimes it might not be verbalized in that way.

35:53
Internalize that, utilize it, make it making you a stronger person and a more well-rounded person as well.

36:00
But yeah, thank you so much for for sharing that, Matt.

36:03
But yeah, I think unless you have anything else to add, I guess that just a a huge thank you for inviting me on.

36:11
Thank you for coming up.

36:12
Yeah.

36:13
I really appreciate you reaching out.

36:15
And I’m sure hopefully one day in the future, we’ll do this sat around the table and we’ll do it in person.

36:19
Fingers crossed.

36:20
Yeah.

36:20
Yeah, that would be great.

36:21
Well, yeah.

36:22
Thank you very much, Matt.

36:22
Enjoy your holiday with the family.

36:24
I’m very jealous.

36:25
And hopefully we’ll have to follow it on LinkedIn.

36:27
Or are you just gonna turn off LinkedIn for the for the rest of it?

36:30
A bit of a break.

36:31
I was, I, like I said, I was working till midnight last night just trying to get everything, all my calls to actions ticked off.

36:37
I want to be completely switched off for the next two plus weeks of.

36:42
Yeah.

36:42
So yeah, teams will be going on Do not disturb, I think.

36:46
Amazing.

36:46
Well, that’s what that’s what you deserve.

36:48
And you know, then you can enjoy your new socks and everything as well.

36:51
Yeah.

36:52
Perfect.

36:52
Thank you so much, Matt.

36:54
Thank you.