The 365 pod

Imogen DeVille   0:07
Hello everyone and welcome to the 365 pod.
Today we are joined by Fiona Wise. Hello.

Fiona Wise   0:13
Hi.
Bye.

Imogen DeVille   0:15
Thanks so much for coming on, Fiona.
Well, yeah. I mean, tell us a little bit about when you’re listeners about yourself. I mean, your current situation as well with your injury.
And and then we can get straight into the pod.
But yeah, thank you so much for coming on, Fiona.

Fiona Wise   0:31
No, thank you so much Imogen, for inviting me along to your famous podcast, which I’m really delighted to be here.
So yeah, so I am Fiona wise for anybody who doesn’t know me. I live in the southeast of England, so in a place called early, which is just outside of reading 10 minutes drive to Microsoft is normally the one I say for everybody to sort of know Loc.
Wise and a bit about me.
So I got. I’m proud mum of an 18 year old.
Called Jake.
He was just finishing his B.Tech in business and Finance. I think they call it level three or something. Now I’m wiped my husband Andy, but I think as you just mentioned, I’m not very a current active wife right now because as you say, I have a very.
Nice big.
Oh no, you can’t see it on here, but let’s just say.

Imogen DeVille   1:19
No, you can’t see it.

Fiona Wise   1:21
But yeah, there’s a big boot under this.
Just thankfully, nobody can see it.
It’s probably a good thing to be fair, but yeah, I sadly broke my ankle.
And for anybody who knows me, there was no alcohol involved this time.

Imogen DeVille   1:32
Hello.

Fiona Wise   1:34
And but yeah, in a freak accident on the very early hours of the Good Friday.
In fact, it was so bad three weeks ago.
Yeah, had a high fever and I got out of bed sick and must have passed out.
Woke up with my ankle facing the other direction. So enough said. Let’s say so.

Imogen DeVille   1:51
Yeah.

Fiona Wise   1:51
Yeah, I’m very much laid up, doing very well.

Imogen DeVille   1:54
Thank you.

Fiona Wise   1:55
I say do very little, but literally working with my leg up and running around with a with a chair.
I wouldn’t say running, but you know what? Wheeling. Maybe.

Imogen DeVille   2:02
Yeah, I did just spot Fiona Wheeling across the her office at the minute as well.
Guys, it was a sight to see.
So but yeah, thank you so much for obviously taking time because obviously in the heat as well, having the boot and things.
So we really appreciate you saying down was up this afternoon.

Fiona Wise   2:18
No, that’s.

Imogen DeVille   2:20
But yeah, so the reason I really wanted to speak to you, Fiona, is obviously we know each other from various conferences and then we got to really know each other.
I think it was directions last year on the route to the to the party.

Fiona Wise   2:30
Yes.

Imogen DeVille   2:31
On the Thursday night and that was so fun, but I just think you’ve achieved so much and a lot of people we have on the podcast have come from not the stereotypical background, and they’ve ended up in tech and obviously you’ve achieved so much founding your own company.
So how about you share with us a little bit about your early career path starting from college perhaps?

Fiona Wise   2:50
Oh gosh, now we’re talking a long way back. Engine here, someone.

Imogen DeVille   2:53
Yeah.

Fiona Wise   2:55
So probably before you were born. OK. No, I’m not that old.
But yeah, so if I guess if I take one step back just before college, because I think a lot of listeners will probably resonate with me from a school aspect.
So I absolutely hated school. Really did, and that was with a passion and from hatred, I guess for it because I was bullied through most of my school life sadly. And I know a lot of people are loving this.

Imogen DeVille   3:17
Mm hmm.

Fiona Wise   3:21
But as you can imagine, that was a tough time.
So actually when I finished school, I was like, Get Me Out of here. Let’s go to college. Let’s start fresh.
So people sort of got to know the real me and didn’t associate me from back at the school. And there I did. AB Tech in business and finance because I always knew I’d probably want to go into finance as a sorry finance. Want to go into business as.

Imogen DeVille   3:34
Yeah.

Fiona Wise   3:44
A career. But I didn’t know what aspect, so it was obviously a broad.
Course for me to be able to sort of find my feet.
And see what sort of areas that really sort of, you know, interested me in that perspective. And also I guess from that part, once I finished college and I did really well actually came out with a good qualification from it, lots of friends.

Imogen DeVille   3:51
Mm hmm.
Yeah.

Fiona Wise   4:06
But again, didn’t know what I wanted to do after college, and I think a lot of youngsters have that moment where you’re finishing college, finishing uni and you’ve got all this anticipation of and everyone’s asking, what are you going to do when you grow up?

Imogen DeVille   4:10
Mm hmm.
Yeah.

Fiona Wise   4:19
And you’re like, I do not know.

Imogen DeVille   4:20
Yeah, definitely.

Fiona Wise   4:20
And that’s really where I was at.
You’re nodding like you know.

Imogen DeVille   4:23
I mean, I’m 28 now and I still haven’t got the clue what I will need to do when I grow up, so I don’t when I can stop saying that.

Fiona Wise   4:29
Me neither.
Me neither.
So I guess the career path really from college didn’t really get going.
I mean, I used to have a few temping jobs like I did back then.
You could get a temping job.
I worked for various, I think the prudential, which was a big employer back in the time in reading, I think everybody pretty much worked there at some point or another and it ended up being right.

Imogen DeVille   4:48
Yeah.

Fiona Wise   4:54
There’s no job here at the minute that I really enjoy, so I decided to.
Up sticks within probably 6-8 months.
Of leaving college, and I went to America.
So I pack my bags.
I went to be an au pair with a family with three young children.
I’ve done very little babysitting before, so I decided to go.

Imogen DeVille   5:10
OK.

Fiona Wise   5:12
Right. What the hell?
What? What have I got to lose and found myself living in Washington, DC and Long Island in New York for a year and then travelled 13 months.

Imogen DeVille   5:14
Help.

Fiona Wise   5:20
I’m sorry. The 13th month I travelled around and did about 25 States and and Mexico and Canada.
So all by the time I was 19. So I think from that perspective.
That was my initial before career starting, yeah.

Imogen DeVille   5:33
Yeah.
Yeah. And I feel like because I I was running goes in a pair. I did consider that route, but for my second year of university, I actually ended up going to UNI in the states, right?
So I feel like, I guess that was another recommendation from anyone see this podcast. If your kids are unsure what to do or you know you’re unsure what to do at this point, just push yourself out your comfort zone. And I’m not saying everyone go to America, but.

Fiona Wise   5:44
Yeah.
Yeah.

Imogen DeVille   5:56
I really did discover a lot more about myself and it really at that age.
I matured so much I came back a totally different person.

Fiona Wise   6:02
Yes.

Imogen DeVille   6:03
Then, because of the exposure and there’s so many different cultures in that country.
State wise is just so different.
So do you find that I mean out from my perspective, I honestly grew up so much.

Fiona Wise   6:10
Yeah.

Imogen DeVille   6:15
Did you find the same when you obviously went over there?

Fiona Wise   6:17
Oh 100%. I think you know, you always think, don’t you? When you leave college, you’re quite grown up until the reality is you’re in the big wide world and then realise actually you weren’t as grown up as you thought you were. And you suddenly have to.

Imogen DeVille   6:25
Yeah.

Fiona Wise   6:30
Yeah, sort of have to make decisions quickly and you haven’t gotten to.
So your parents to fall back on at the time?

Imogen DeVille   6:34
Yes, yes.

Fiona Wise   6:35
So it was big decisions to be made.
Some right some wrong. I found myself in the middle of Queens one time getting the wrong train.
Late at night and thought I probably wouldn’t ever come out of Queens in Manhattan.
And moments where I had to think on my feet. I mean many scenarios, but I think you’re right.

Imogen DeVille   6:49
Yeah.

Fiona Wise   6:52
I think actually travelling really does make you.
It makes you grow up. It makes you appreciate other cultures, but also appreciate what you’ve got as a home as well.
And you can bring that back and then really take that into your life where where you’re going next and what you want to be able to achieve from there onwards.

Imogen DeVille   7:00
Definitely.
Mm hmm.
Yeah. I think for me it gave me a lot of confidence as well, which is why I feel now I can talk to anyone about anything. And I feel like you’re probably very, I don’t know if you had that beforehand, but I mean it definitely that kind of.

Fiona Wise   7:12
Yes.
Yes.
21.

Imogen DeVille   7:20
Added the networking element to my personality.
I guess you could say when I went over there and did the same thing, it is intense. When you look back at anything.
I was 1819, packed a suitcase and moved to another country alone.

Fiona Wise   7:30
Yeah.

Imogen DeVille   7:31
I’d never even left the UK before.
Like what was I doing?

Fiona Wise   7:33
Yes.

Imogen DeVille   7:34
Isn’t it meant at all?

Fiona Wise   7:35
It is crazy and I keep saying to my son like you were 18. Now you’re pretty much at the age that I left to go, of course. But actually thinking of him going over there, I think he’s so young. But, you know, we were that age and act.

Imogen DeVille   7:47
Yeah.

Fiona Wise   7:47
It’s not necessarily too young.
I think it is a great opportunity for any youngster and I’m always going to anybody young travel while you can and get the opportunity to experience, you know life actually because you know it’s a long time working and if you get the chance to be able to do.

Imogen DeVille   7:54
Mm hmm.

Fiona Wise   8:01
Something.
If it’s traveling or even working abroad then.

Imogen DeVille   8:03
Call.

Fiona Wise   8:04
Yeah, just do it as I say, just do it.

Imogen DeVille   8:05
Yeah, just travel.
Do not get a mortgage. It’s too stressful.

Fiona Wise   8:09
Yes, Dave’s restaurant. Exactly.

Imogen DeVille   8:10
Don’t do it. Don’t do it.
Oh yeah. I mean, from being coming back from America and being, you know, pair and obviously travelling and things when you got to the UK, did you have any intention or idea what you wanted to do with your career?

Fiona Wise   8:23
No, it was the same.
I came back and landed and went. Oh, no. Now I’ve really got to look for a job.
It’s like or do I go off again?
But I thought I think at that point I realised I’ve always been a motivated person. I’ve always wanted to be able to do and achieve something. I just didn’t know what it was at that age and after a year out, as you say, you come back more conf.

Imogen DeVille   8:40
Yeah.

Fiona Wise   8:43
You’ve got you’re more sure of yourself. You may not know what you’re looking for. And again, back then it was a bit like falling into different type of temporary jobs.
But then I did land myself a contract job back in the day. It was called digital, and a lot of people back probably more my age, who would remember digital was a hardware big centre, huge in reading.
There was a call Dec and their writers found myself in the IT world and that was my first a guest stepping stone within it when I was 1920 years old and really from there, that is how things progressed from myself, loving the whole it world. How fast.
It was how products and the diversity and and how transformations of new products coming out at the speed of lightning, and it was just that moment I thought, oh, this is sort of fits with my personality. I like to move fast.

Imogen DeVille   9:30
Yeah.

Fiona Wise   9:36
I like to do things that get bored, so you want to keep going, and that is really where and how everything sort of happened from there, from there. From that. Yeah. Digital, as they say.

Imogen DeVille   9:37
Yeah, definitely.

Fiona Wise   9:48
But I did have marketing jobs from there. When I think I’d tap my tap, my sort of foot into different software.
Industries after that and marketing.

Imogen DeVille   9:57
OK.

Fiona Wise   9:58
Well, marketing was the first thing after that.
I think I thought I’d give it a go.
I didn’t find it as fast-paced, maybe as I liked.
And then I got FOMO.

Imogen DeVille   10:07
OK.

Fiona Wise   10:09
I got fomo. Imagin a very early age and realized I wanted to be in sales because they look like they’re having so much more fun and they’re earning more money than me.
And they got more recognition.
So I thought you know what?
That’s where I’m going.

Imogen DeVille   10:21
Yeah, she’s not wrong.
I feel like the although marketing do so much behind the scenes, it’s always the sales people who get the the PAT on the backs and the bottles of champagne at the various events and things like obviously they get the big parties because that’s what people tend to.

Fiona Wise   10:30
Yes.
Yes, I wanted all of that more of it and more. So that was it.

Imogen DeVille   10:36
But yeah.
Yeah, yeah. Mental.
I mean, so you ended up in the sales and was that at the company in Reading?

Fiona Wise   10:44
Yeah. So that was a company reading the marketing. But what I did, I couldn’t move in that company to sales.
So what?
My journey took me to was I spent a very good recruitment company, a really good chap there. You basically said Fiona.
You’ve got to start at the bottom if you want to go in sales. You can’t just jump into this lovely lifestyle that you’ll see there all having right now.
You’ve got to start rock bottom.

Imogen DeVille   11:02
Yep.

Fiona Wise   11:03
And so I joined a company which a lot of viewers will probably know and remember called Tetra.
So it’s an ERP company called Tetra.
And back in the day, they were huge actually.

Imogen DeVille   11:11
OK.

Fiona Wise   11:13
Massive before they were taken over by Sage and I joined them as a telemarketing executive.
So I was doing those 100 cold calls a day from the everyday for nine months.

Imogen DeVille   11:24
The.

Fiona Wise   11:29
I don’t know how I survived it, to be honest.
I was the only girl out of 10.
All of them were guys.
Young guys all thought they could do better than me.
I secretly came in under the radar.
And I just won monthly competition.
I won trips, the quarterly things, and I realized then actually I do like to win.

Imogen DeVille   11:46
Flash.

Fiona Wise   11:48
So my my desire to be at the top and my desire to be able to be successful really sort of shone through there and I was fortunate to be made sort of the telemarketing deputy manager after there and then Sage took over.

Imogen DeVille   11:56
Yeah.

Fiona Wise   12:02
So I sort of move my that’s when my journey sort of moved for these acquisitions. And I then thought, well, it’s time to go into sales.

Imogen DeVille   12:03
OK.
Mm hmm.

Fiona Wise   12:10
A real proper grown up sales job and then for the next seven years.

Imogen DeVille   12:12
Yeah.

Fiona Wise   12:14
Yeah, I was selling a view in desktop viewing software called Quickview Plus to the likes of Shell Met Police.
Oh gosh.
Well, GBS Warburg.
So I was enterprise sales for quite some time for direct sales and yeah, winner of Presidents, clubs and all that sort of shebang.

Imogen DeVille   12:24
Oh.

Fiona Wise   12:31
It was lovely.
I got to buy my first house with it.

Imogen DeVille   12:32
Yeah.

Fiona Wise   12:34
I got to buy myself a convertible car.
I did so well over that time that I realised that was my Forte.
Now that sales was the route to.
My career path was sort of heading that way, I guess.
That’s where.
It’s where I was enjoying it all.

Imogen DeVille   12:46
Yeah. Well, I feel like the cold calling days.
That’s also how I came through back in the day.
But, but yeah, absolutely brutal.

Fiona Wise   12:53
Yeah.

Imogen DeVille   12:57
But it teaches you so much. I mean, I don’t know if you were the same, but there’s a lot of people.
Like my generation, who won’t even pick up a phone they genuinely couldn’t, and I remember being absolutely petrified to even pick a phone up because we were all text that texting generations.
You know what I mean?
So it was pretty intense, but it’s meant that you discovered that you had a talent for this.

Fiona Wise   13:11
Yes.

Imogen DeVille   13:15
Obviously beat everybody in the team so quickly, which is fantastic.

Fiona Wise   13:18
Yeah.

Imogen DeVille   13:19
Do you think for you the motivation was because obviously it’s always so lovely to get the part in the back of the recognition.
Obviously the finance is decent, but is it just because you like to be the top of your game and you’ve got a competitive edge, you think that’s there?

Fiona Wise   13:32
Yeah, I think it is.
I think it’s you find what motivates you and motivation in life. Whatever you do in life is really important.
It’s finding what what really makes you tick and I think the motivation for me not, you know, not just from a monetary aspect and everything else, have been on top, but it’s it’s a thrill.

Imogen DeVille   13:44
Yeah.

Fiona Wise   13:51
It’s the it’s the seeking of winning.
It’s being a good person through it.
It’s everything wrapped together.
I think that how it motivates me back then and also today.
In my life, as you know, what I do with Cosmos and also what I do in my personal life.
And that’s really where I think, yeah, it’s not. You don’t have to be at the top of the game.
Everything in personal life.
But you know what?
It’s just about being able to feel what’s the word.
Probably feel.
Yeah, it makes you feel content.
There’s a contentment that comes with it, and I think that’s probably the best way to describe it and how I how I love to be in sales and yeah.
Do what I’m doing today.

Imogen DeVille   14:29
Yeah, yeah, I think it’s a bit of space as well with sales.
Is that you can you know the people who do the best in the industry are always authentically themselves.

Fiona Wise   14:38
100%.

Imogen DeVille   14:39
Like you, you know, you you’re not just there to win a quickbook as the term would say you’re there to actually provide the best service for the customer because it gives you that satisfaction and that’s where you get your thrill from.

Fiona Wise   14:43
Yeah.
OK, great.

Imogen DeVille   14:50
I mean, yeah, I mean recruitment in my eyes is is sales because you are essentially selling a product which is awful to say that you actually can’t control.
So if anything, it’s harder than selling software.

Fiona Wise   14:59
Yes.

Imogen DeVille   15:00
In some regards, so I definitely understand everything you’re saying there.

Fiona Wise   15:04
Yes, please.

Imogen DeVille   15:05
And it’s great.
I mean, you did branch off from that initial career path, didn’t you?
So can you tell us a little bit more about the transitions and what has influenced you through these through your career, I guess?

Fiona Wise   15:17
Yeah. So I guess from you know, touching from a marketing then get into direct sales and direct sales was there for a long time.
So finally I survived about four acquisitions with that business.
I seem to be the only one seem to be hanging on every time with an acquisition which I was just lucky.

Imogen DeVille   15:32
And that’s impressive because sales is always the first out the door when everyone’s box, they’re the most expensive.

Fiona Wise   15:35
Exactly.
That’s why I realize they need me ’cause. I need to just keep doing what I’m doing.
But finally, finally, yeah, there was an acquisition with Oracle and Oracle.

Imogen DeVille   15:42
Yeah.

Fiona Wise   15:47
Yeah, they made a lot of people redundant and I was actually pregnant at the time, to be fair.
So. So I guess in a sense it was quite good timing because not only did I have a decent payout, but also it was timing where I was about to give birth in 3-4 months time.
So ultimately it gave me that great to be able to spend time with my newborn.
18 years ago now, but also to have a reflection on where and what I wanted to do next. And I think sometimes these things in life we always, although they seem quite severe.

Imogen DeVille   16:06
Yeah.

Fiona Wise   16:16
Or you know, sudden, you know, it does take you a change in pathway in your life and it’s actually looking at it as a new direction, a new challenge and actually something to sort of like embrace and move forward with.

Imogen DeVille   16:21
Yeah.

Fiona Wise   16:29
So after that I guess been a new mum.
Not sure if I wanted to go back into sales to that degree.
Creates a high level sales because obviously it’s so intense, absolutely and it takes a lot out of you as a lot of pressure.

Imogen DeVille   16:37
Yeah, because it’s intense. It’s so intense.

Fiona Wise   16:43
But I did.
And this is really where I sort of found the opportunity and I’ve got the opportunity to, although I did have my own business for a little bit and I was a consultant, but I went into Microsoft and that’s where my door opened into this amazing world and commun.
That we all work and live and breathe in right now.

Imogen DeVille   17:00
Yeah.

Fiona Wise   17:01
And it was from Microsoft that really springboarded.
Not only the channel sales, but bringing my knowledge from selling but also my ability to be able to build trusted partnerships, you know, have that credibility, but also the trust within that network.

Imogen DeVille   17:14
Yeah.

Fiona Wise   17:19
So people would then trust you with what you’re bringing to them as a product across the board. And that’s really where I jumped into the the dynamics team, the small little dynamics team at the time it was, we were a little branch of Microsoft with Elena, that’s where.

Imogen DeVille   17:22
Mm hmm.

Fiona Wise   17:32
I met alone.

Imogen DeVille   17:33
Yeah.

Fiona Wise   17:33
And we worked together there and yeah, it was just suddenly, like, yeah, who would have known where and what it would have taken me to now.

Imogen DeVille   17:41
Yeah.

Fiona Wise   17:42
And I think that’s what’s so exciting, isn’t it about life?

Imogen DeVille   17:44
Was it just the diet like BC, or was it the why to hold the dynamics products?
Was this like before they merged them or was it before it was even called dynamics?

Fiona Wise   17:50
Yeah. Yes.

Imogen DeVille   17:52
You know the rebrands.

Fiona Wise   17:54
The ones before the different names, so it this was like old school. This was like CRM as we still call it to a degree now, which is obviously dynamics NAV and also ax which we now know is known as lots of other things but ever known everything else.

Imogen DeVille   17:55
Yeah.
Yeah, it’s the best way.
Yeah, it’s a supply chain management, but to me it’s a little exacter ax or ethano supply chain, yeah.

Fiona Wise   18:13
Yes, F&O, absolutely.
It’s always a tricky 1 to know what what’s called next, but yeah, I looked after the key partners with Microsoft at the time for those 3 product lines.
So back then, at Microsoft used to manage partners, so I would do business plan meetings, a lot of the partners I worked with today actually they’ve come into Microsoft.
We’ve worked through, you know, how we were going to be able to drive growth and revenue across.
You know, certainly those three key platforms.

Imogen DeVille   18:41
Yeah.

Fiona Wise   18:41
And I’d really so yeah, that’s how I built my channel experience across while working in with the team.
It was only after Microsoft that it was QBs actually or companial as we know today really then took on all the management of all the partners to be able to transact or any licensing through from a Nava business central perspective and also CRM etc as a CSP.

Imogen DeVille   19:02
Mm hmm.

Fiona Wise   19:07
Tier 2.
So that’s where I came in and worked with the all greatest. Mr. Mckinty will mckinty.

Imogen DeVille   19:07
OK.

Fiona Wise   19:14
Who? I know the whole dynamics channel knows very well, very good friend, dear friend and dear mentor of mine and yeah. And I joined him as his sort of #2 when he was just getting QBs off the ground and and really I was there for four years.

Imogen DeVille   19:16
Yeah.

Fiona Wise   19:26
Really, to grow that Channel again and been able to sort of drive both for for those partners also bringing ISV products as well, which is where my tapping into the ISV world sort of comes in I guess.

Imogen DeVille   19:39
Yeah, yeah, I mean, that’s fantastic obviously because as you said, Microsoft used to directly manage the partners, but now the distributors exist and they obviously for the BC side handle a lot of those relationships, which is fantastic.

Fiona Wise   19:45
Yes.

Imogen DeVille   19:50
And you were there.

Fiona Wise   19:52
At the beginning.

Imogen DeVille   19:52
Og Companial which is class.

Fiona Wise   19:54
Yes, I know.
I was there at the beginning.
We were there at the start.
It was so. It was a great time, although it, you know, it’s obviously challenged in a lot of partners because again, major changes, they’ve always been used to being going directly through Microsoft.
Off so then it was like, wow, why have we got to go now indirectly through to another company?
But I think, like everything, once they realised the value that we’re offering and also been able to have the support that maybe they weren’t necessarily getting from Microsoft because Microsoft didn’t have the capacity or the resources to do that, then actually it meant that there’s this whole new.

Imogen DeVille   20:15
Yes.
Yeah.

Fiona Wise   20:27
Amazing company that could actually support the partners in a much better and more confidently way and and that that was a great time actually working those four years.
Yeah. And obviously growing the channel and getting to know everybody that I know today across the sort of the the industry.

Imogen DeVille   20:43
Yeah, yeah. Because the distributors, they do add that extra personal approach because they they have more time.
Obviously they do have that capacity to to build those relationships, which is class.

Fiona Wise   20:48
Yes.
Yes.

Imogen DeVille   20:52
I mean what?
Moving through Companial, I know that because obviously we discussed that you went to college, but you didn’t necessarily go down the university route.
I think there’s a lot of pressure from.
I mean, you’ll you’ll from your network as well.
You’ll know hundreds of people who haven’t necessarily gone down the degree route as well.
Oh, but is there anything that you could say to those people because you ended up working for Microsoft and then you ended up, well, soon. So well in your career, fantastic. And you don’t have a degree. So is there anything that you or what’s your perspective on that?

Fiona Wise   21:12
Yes.

Imogen DeVille   21:26
Really.

Fiona Wise   21:26
Yeah. I mean, it’s a good question.
And I think there’s always the open debate out there of what people believe, depending on where and what they’ve done or achieved today.
I mean, I am a firm believer that I guess young people don’t have to have a university degree to be successful.
You know, obviously talking from my own experience, my husband is a successful business owner.

Imogen DeVille   21:41
Yeah.

Fiona Wise   21:46
In fact, I know a lot of my friends who own successful businesses never went down the university route. So it does mean that, you know, you can forge a successful career.
And a clear path without having to have a degree under your belt. I do feel for I think youngsters who that do feel that maybe they need to take this path because either society or their parents expect them to do so. And maybe if you’re not looking for.

Imogen DeVille   22:07
Yeah.

Fiona Wise   22:11
A career that needs specifically that education behind it.
Then it is.
You know, they’re putting themselves at, I guess, at a risk to the point that there will be in depth when they come out, they’re going to have to pay off that and it’s a huge impact.

Imogen DeVille   22:22
Yeah.

Fiona Wise   22:23
As you know, you’re nodding away.

Imogen DeVille   22:25
Yeah, it’s savage.

Fiona Wise   22:26
Yeah. It’s like, yeah, you.
Yeah, it is savage.
Exactly. And so I think, you know, with apprentice schemes now, a management programmes out on the market and so many opportunities to be able to get in there that I think yeah, it the wealthy oyster and it doesn’t necessarily have to be you know down the down the.

Imogen DeVille   22:35
And.

Fiona Wise   22:43
University Rd.
And that’s just my, you know, personal opinion on that.

Imogen DeVille   22:46
Yeah, yeah. I mean, I definitely, even though I went to university and what I learned about UNI was obviously the ability to learn independently. And then my degrees, history and political science and I work in sales and technology.

Fiona Wise   22:54
Yes.
Yes.

Imogen DeVille   22:58
So you tell me. But I mean, I’m passionate about diversity and dynamics and all those things.
So I guess it can fall into that with the with the politics side.
But yeah, it is quite interesting.
Yeah, I really appreciate you saying that because the apprenticeship route, I know there’s a lot of partners out there who are.

Fiona Wise   23:09
Counseling.
Exactly.

Imogen DeVille   23:14
Hiring at this level.
Like one of the girls I know through the imcp network like it’s it’s mental.
Like she’s literally 21 years old and she’s hiring an entire team of apprentices who are only 16.
I mean.
For you guys at Cosmos, do you have any specific strategy around those for the future as you guys grow or?

Fiona Wise   23:36
Yeah, you know what I mean.
I love to bring young people into the industry.
I mean for us right now, we’re only literally just two years in.
So for us, we are just starting off in that sense. But when I was at QBs or Companial, I ran a sort of like a it was called the Gen. Z programme.

Imogen DeVille   23:43
Yeah.

Fiona Wise   23:52
Actually, it was about trying to bring new fresh blood into the channel. And I know I’ve got some, you know, amazing partners who work with, who do have a great adventures, programs out there at the moment, who have really been able to take that on board and been.

Imogen DeVille   23:56
Mm hmm.

Fiona Wise   24:04
Able to get behind it with their technical know.
Training you guys are obviously bringing new youngsters in there and bring them into the into the industry, which is brilliant and so I think, you know, if we get to that point, that would be an absolute, yeah, 100%. I would love to bring someone in. Yeah.

Imogen DeVille   24:10
Yeah.
Mm hmm.
Be the winner.

Fiona Wise   24:20
Absolutely, because I I love about just being able to, you know, mold people, but be able to give people that sort of starting point a really good strategic know how starting point and not feeling that they’re thrown in the deep end sometimes where some companies maybe.

Imogen DeVille   24:34
Mm hmm.

Fiona Wise   24:36
Would would do so.
So yeah, but yeah, watch this ties as we’re growing.

Imogen DeVille   24:37
Yeah.

Fiona Wise   24:39
I’m imagin.

Imogen DeVille   24:40
Yeah, class. I mean, now we talk about Cosmos.
Obviously wonderful background as well. So tell everybody a little bit about you because you started Cosmos with zero investment and you’re obviously back to yourself and you, you capitalize on what you brought to the table, right?

Fiona Wise   24:46
Yes.

Imogen DeVille   24:56
So from your own investment, So what?
Tell me in the view is a little bit about that for the listeners.

Fiona Wise   25:02
Yeah. No. Absolutely. So yeah.
So I mean, I guess if I just before the cosmos fire, I I had, I went and joined a company that was big corporate company, silly salary thought it was going to be amazing, realised very quickly that it wasn’t.

Imogen DeVille   25:17
Mm hmm.

Fiona Wise   25:19
Left there without a job to go to.
Never done that in my life and then had a year out. And then it was like, OK, I want to do something for me.
Now I want to do something and I’ve always always wanted to run my own business, but I never knew what it was going to be.
And then after leaving another well known.

Imogen DeVille   25:30
Yeah.

Fiona Wise   25:36
Reporting tool in the market and also some of the guys who used to work in the US had left there. They set up a company called Cosmos as we know today 3-4 years ago and that was really about yeah, bringing in and just to give you a.
Little idea of what Cosmos is. It’s a.
It’s a super fast, easy to use, cloud reporting and analytics solution.
Built entirely from the ground up for business central SaaS, so as I mentioned, it’s founded by some ex colleagues of us that we used to work with who realized they like us, that there was a gap in the market to be able to provide business central users this.

Imogen DeVille   26:15
Definitely.

Fiona Wise   26:16
Super improved, faster and more reliable solution that lines with their business central investment.

Imogen DeVille   26:23
Mm hmm.

Fiona Wise   26:24
And I had a passion.
Always had a passion for reporting. After working for that company.
So I saw this opportunity and went right.
You know what?
If we can take this to the UK and Irish market, then let’s do it.
So I knocked on my old colleague Rob Jackson’s virtual door and said, Rob, you know, leave your job, leave your job.
You need to come and join me for this exciting venture. And he was like, watch your mad, Fiona. What you’re doing. And anyway to roll on, you know, sort of two years nearer.
It’s enough to the day we signed up in June 23, the exclusive distributor.
For UK and Ireland for Cosmos.
In fact, we signed up on my dad’s 80th birthday.
This is always going to be memorable for me, so I was away at the time when we literally did the DocuSign.
So yeah, it was a special moment and it has.

Imogen DeVille   27:08
Love that.

Fiona Wise   27:11
I mean, it’s obviously been challenging as it would do with any startup.
I was never.

Imogen DeVille   27:15
Definitely.

Fiona Wise   27:16
I guess I’d never thought.
I always knew it’d be challenging. You just never know what roadblocks you’d come against and what once you got her over, overcome by, we had a lot of sleepless nights. But then we’re sleeping again now.

Imogen DeVille   27:24
Yeah.

Fiona Wise   27:26
But the great thing is we’ve got this successful company that is growing and and the best part is it’s really down to the facts of our partners.

Imogen DeVille   27:26
Yeah.

Fiona Wise   27:35
I mean, obviously as I mentioned, I’ve been working this channel a long time.
I’ve been some really good trusted relationships and people who, you know, know that we’re not only trustworthy as people, but also we have a really good solution behind us. And and I think seeing and believing and us getting to where we are now two years in, yeah, it.

Imogen DeVille   27:46
Yes.

Fiona Wise   27:52
Very exciting to not only been able to put our own investment in and.
Now to have that out, but also not having to rely on any external investment to get us off the ground.
So yeah, we, we.
I think we probably don’t pat ourselves on the back enough sometimes. But you know what IMO is about like you know, celebrate small wins of big wins.

Imogen DeVille   28:06
Yeah.

Fiona Wise   28:11
And sometimes I forget to do it myself.
But that’s how. That’s what happens, doesn’t it?

Imogen DeVille   28:15
Yeah. I mean, how are you?
How are you finding running your own business?
Obviously, there’s hurdles and things like that.
Do you get the satisfaction that you’re you previously getting when you work in the roles before?

Fiona Wise   28:27
Yeah, you know what?
I think it’s it’s it’s better in so many ways. I think working in the corporate industry for a long time and I just got to a point that I’m a bit long in the tooth for this. I’ve done it.

Imogen DeVille   28:34
Mm H.

Fiona Wise   28:38
I’ve got the T-shirt.

Imogen DeVille   28:38
OK.

Fiona Wise   28:39
It’s hard work.
It’s you’re you’re a number, not a name.
And I think if I just realised that’s not what I want to be anymore, I’ve got a lot to bring to the table. I’ve got to shed loads of motivation still.

Imogen DeVille   28:44
Yeah.

Fiona Wise   28:52
I’m driven.
I never sit still, even when I only at the moment with a bad leg.
I’m not really sitting still.
I was even working the day after my operation and I think on the Operation day in the hospital ward, what I was doing. So you know what?

Imogen DeVille   29:05
Cancel.

Fiona Wise   29:06
That’s I think that’s the love, but I would have done that for another company if I was employed. So I knew I would be able to bring that same criteria to running my own company as well.
And and that’s what I love about it.
It’s it’s. Yeah, it’s a fulfilling. It’s fun.
It’s great to work with a channel and obviously you know been out of work, you know and and strive sales as well.
Bring an awesome product to the market that you know our partners and our customers in particular are really, really loving. And I think that’s the best thing, something that everybody sees a benefit in it and makes people’s lives easier. And I think that’s the thing. That’s the.

Imogen DeVille   29:35
Yeah.
Yeah, and I suppose you’ll get the pride of that, even though you might have had that previously. When you’re working for the other businesses, it’s like this is actually the product that I’m promoting myself.

Fiona Wise   29:41
Key thing about life.

Imogen DeVille   29:49
It’s my business.

Fiona Wise   29:51
This is my business.

Imogen DeVille   29:52
I personally am making the impact on these lives on the companies, on the processes, and you get to see your host. We get the phrase. I would say it wrong.

Fiona Wise   29:55
Yes.

Imogen DeVille   30:00
The fruits of your labour is not the right term.

Fiona Wise   30:01
The streets of labour. That’s it.

Imogen DeVille   30:02
I always say it wrong.

Fiona Wise   30:03
Exactly. It’s exactly that.

Imogen DeVille   30:05
But you genuinely do, don’t you?
So I guess we just say that that’s the main thing that’s inspiring you to keep ticking even with a broken leg.
Like.

Fiona Wise   30:13
It is, I know.
Absolutely. I think it is.
Although you know I haven’t had any time off this year and although I was going to have some time off and then I did my ankle in, haven’t really had any time off. Part of my birthday off and that’s about it this year. So but you know what?
It’s it’s OK. And I think that’s the thing. I think you realize when you’re doing have your own business, you’re going to have to make some sacrifices.
But what the sacrifices weigh out?
What the pleasure and the fun and and what you get out of the having your own business.
I mean, there’s no means feat.
It’s not easy.
I you know, I.
Also say that just take the risk if you’re ever sitting on the fence and you wonder when’s it going to be good time. Should I have more money in the bank?
Should I do this sometimes?
You just maybe wait too long and it never happens. And I’m always like, you know, I’m not the biggest risk taker. But I always knew I wanted to do it. And I always thought if I, I will have a motto in life, regret the things that you Don.
Do, but don’t regret the things you have done, and I think in that sense I’ve had to do it just to know if it didn’t work, it wasn’t failure.
It’s because I tried.
And you can walk away and I think that was the best, best way to sort of look at things in life. I think just just get out there and give everything a go once at least.

Imogen DeVille   31:20
Yeah, definitely 100% agree. I mean, I just think that’s so important.
Thank you so much for sharing that because I might put that as the heading for the for the podcast.

Fiona Wise   31:26
That’s OK.

Imogen DeVille   31:32
Oh yeah. I mean, you wouldn’t be the 365 pod.
I know that we spoke about this a little bit before we meeting when we spoke at person, but about AI who?

Fiona Wise   31:36
What?

Imogen DeVille   31:40
Who would have thought the words?

Fiona Wise   31:41
We love AI, don’t we?

Imogen DeVille   31:42
Yeah. So I was just going to ask as a business owner, you know as an organization that’s growing very successfully. And then on a personal level.
How do you use AI to make your life better in a way?

Fiona Wise   31:50
Yeah.
Oh well, who doesn’t love a bit of ChatGPT imagin.
ING. In fact, my husband loves it so much, since I’ve really introduced it to him.
He built a photo of me while I was in hospital in bed with me, with a broken ankle on the photo.
Things, although it ended up coming in with a left leg, not a right leg. So I was like, I’m not used to that on LinkedIn or anything.
You can keep that one, but but yeah, no, I’ve been putting that aside.

Imogen DeVille   32:17
Probably got sent around a few WhatsApp group chats that I imagine.

Fiona Wise   32:22
But I guess on a serious note, I mean, I think our AII see as a bit of your sanity check up and I and I love that it used to be like when I used to be in an office back in the day over 10 years ago, you.

Imogen DeVille   32:22
Amazing.

Fiona Wise   32:33
Ask that clever person in the corner to just check the things you were thinking of. Or does this sound right?
Now you’ve got that clever person whenever you want it at any time, and I think for that.

Imogen DeVille   32:40
Mm hmm.
Yeah.

Fiona Wise   32:45
It not only you know, just drives productivity, I mean.
Makes my life so much easier and I think from A and also the creativity. I’m not particularly creative, but I have to do a lot of my own marketing or bits and pieces, so I use that as just a creative spin or I put something together that sounds.
Horrible and I put it into ChatGPT and it makes it sound so much better and I think, yeah, from a personal perspective, using it all the time at the moment about how quickly does an ankle.

Imogen DeVille   33:07
Yeah.

Fiona Wise   33:15
You know, with five pins and two plates take to recover through to.

Imogen DeVille   33:16
Yeah.
Blessed.

Fiona Wise   33:18
How to do a marketing content plan or something like that?
Yeah, I use it from both sides of the coin, and I, and I think from that side is great from a copilot and agents perspective. I think this is the way everything is going isn’t, it’s revolved revolutionising about every user is going to work today and and.

Imogen DeVille   33:22
Yeah.
Yeah.

Fiona Wise   33:39
I think you know, I think from a business aspect is well from us that financial and analytic reporting.
Certainly within business central.
So AI is really translating that complex data that quite often financial teams are having. To make it really easy to understand, isn’t it?

Imogen DeVille   33:55
Yeah.

Fiona Wise   33:57
And summarises that whole, you know, information that key stakeholders need to make really that faster data-driven decisions and we’re so pleased that we’ve got AI built into our product in Fosmar set called Captain Cosmos.

Imogen DeVille   34:05
Yeah.
OK, cool.

Fiona Wise   34:13
He’s very cool and he’s there to be able to help users with building reports.
If they want to know how to add filters if they just generally get stuck with a building their reports, we have an immense knowledge base and that AI agent effectively to help users with that whole build method.

Imogen DeVille   34:31
Very cool.

Fiona Wise   34:32
So yeah, so all very exciting and lots more to come with Cosmos as well. We’ve got brand new release coming up in and the spring release coming up next month. So watch this space.

Imogen DeVille   34:40
Have watch this fizz.
I mean, that’s mean. I love Captain Cosmos, but a fun thing. But I think that’s with like, with AI, it can just help you get out. Like any brain fogs that you’ve had.
So obviously we because majority of us work from home now it’s hard to when you have an idea to bounce the idea off somebody.
So you’re so right in saying that it is like the clever colleague that you, you don’t have to pester anymore, which is class.

Fiona Wise   35:01
Yes.
Yeah.

Imogen DeVille   35:05
I mean, obviously you guys are using it so well to enhance productivity and all of that, which is great.
If your customer base.
Are you? I mean, it’s yourself and rob. Is there anything else within the copilot that you have planned, or can you actually disclose anything with the spring or how it will be different with spring release?

Fiona Wise   35:22
Well, from a new release, obviously we’ll be we’ll be announcing all those new features coming up.
We’re just finalizing the sector, finalising everything out.

Imogen DeVille   35:27
That I’ve.

Fiona Wise   35:29
But yeah, it’s bigger, brighter and better for certain.

Imogen DeVille   35:30
Mm hmm.

Fiona Wise   35:33
Just just amazing.
So yeah, we’ve got lots to come on there.

Imogen DeVille   35:35
Just so much better.

Fiona Wise   35:36
Yeah, absolutely.
But yeah, so, but no. I think from yeah, from I mean AI is just constantly developing and we’re very aware as you know Cosmos us and just generally where AI is taking.
You know, taking users today and you have to be on on the end game.
You’ve got to be there and you’ve got to be able to be able to bring that into your software solutions to be able to, you know, just give everyone that best experience that they’re already having with Microsoft’s copilot and everything else that they’re using. So yeah, yeah.

Imogen DeVille   36:05
Yeah, agreed. Agreed.
You kind of have to AI first, right?
Because there’s the terminology being thrown around at the minute and then you’ve got to have that stay competitive.
So if the organization doesn’t necessarily invest in AI, they kind of shoot themselves in the foot. Because I saw a really interesting like summarization, is that well, AI is essentially when the calculate was invented.

Fiona Wise   36:14
Yes.
Mm hmm.
Absolutely.

Imogen DeVille   36:28
It’s basically the same thing because obviously there’s a lot of, yeah, do you know what I mean? In the sense that we will use it every single day.

Fiona Wise   36:30
Mile.
Yeah.

Imogen DeVille   36:34
You won’t even have to think about it, and that now, I guess with exams and everything, obviously there’s a whole uni issue, schools, everything.
But now we just have to change the exams in the way that that’s worked to integrate it like we do with the calculator.

Fiona Wise   36:46
I know, I know.
It is crazy.
I mean, my son says to know, you know, they can’t do well.
University students, you know, doing your dissertation. You know, you could use AI and get everything you need.
But now it’s like, yeah, they’ve got to be careful and and although it’s amazing to be able to bring that information in is very easy for students to be able to just drop it in and hope for the best.

Imogen DeVille   36:55
Yeah.

Fiona Wise   37:04
And yeah, so I think it’s very challenging in lots of industries trying to be able to, yes.

Imogen DeVille   37:05
OK.
Yeah, yeah. I feel sorry for them.
Yeah, I always feel sorry for them because I’m like, if I was at uni now, like I wouldn’t have researched my dissertation.

Fiona Wise   37:12
Exactly.
Yeah.

Imogen DeVille   37:15
Drop me like, which is awful to say, but I’m I’m very self aware.

Fiona Wise   37:16
Exactly.

Imogen DeVille   37:18
You know, I mean a very like to be proficient. So yeah, I mean.

Fiona Wise   37:21
Yes, but why would you think like? Well, if I’ve got it there, it’s too tempting not to use it and also to learn a little bit from it to go well, actually, maybe I should bring this into my exam or or you know, dissertation or whatever it is.
Assignments but, but yeah it is.

Imogen DeVille   37:36
Yeah, yeah.

Fiona Wise   37:38
It’s it’s, it’s challenging I think for a lot certain you know from an education perspective. But I think from embracing it from a business perspective, you know what?

Imogen DeVille   37:45
The employer work pace? Yeah, agreed.

Fiona Wise   37:48
Don’t be scared of it.
Get involved. Get involved.
You know what it will change.
It will change lots of lives, I think on how we work, which is yeah. So all for it.

Imogen DeVille   37:58
Yeah, agreed. Agreed.
I mean, one of the things as well that you you’ll know from watching our the podcast is about we always end the pod with a bit of a we’re big on turning negatives into positives as our business.
Obviously you know Elena.
She’s incredibly good looking at things from such a positive perspective, and so we like to turn failures.

Fiona Wise   38:16
Yes.

Imogen DeVille   38:19
We don’t like that word, but into something positive.
So can you share with our listeners?
You know, sit the ankle, all right.
Either a personal or professional. What could be talking to the failure?
How you’ve actually turned that into a success, even though we know it’s not failure, but any examples that you’d like to share?

Fiona Wise   38:36
Yes, So what if I tend to have?
Oh gosh, it’s a good question actually.
Let me have a think.
What if I turned into a failure?
I guess one of the things that comes to mind, I was headhunted for a senior role.
Not so long ago offered me amazing salary benefits package. Everything that you couldn’t refuse.
You know, I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think it would seem apparent within a few months that it was not the role for me.
It was over sold to me and there was 0 opportunity to drive growth.
Within there and for me, being a motivate person, I wanted to be able to do my best and I knew I would be able to do that within that role.
So basically after very long hours working as well, I decided to leave there and I think I just mentioned earlier in the podcast that I left there with no job to go to.

Imogen DeVille   39:14
Mm hmm.
Yeah.

Fiona Wise   39:22
So for that it not, it was a professional failure, because I think I always look at not necessarily a failure.
It was a failure.
Or maybe at the time of picking the wrong job at the wrong time and that could have been look as a failure. But I think the failures you can always.
Turn into a positive and the positive was that I took this year out.

Imogen DeVille   39:39
So.

Fiona Wise   39:42
It gave me time for my mental health.
I was suffering by that point, you know, heavily corporate overload for many years.
That was just the probably the tipping it was.

Imogen DeVille   39:49
Operate fatigue, yeah.

Fiona Wise   39:51
It was a tipping point to me to say, you know what? I’m worthy and I’m not not worthy. Staying in the type of job I am to myself, or even to my family and friends.
And so the positive was that, you know, I had the time out. I spent more.
Had heads.
And then I started Cosmos for within that sort of year.

Imogen DeVille   40:24
Yes, definitely.
Yeah, agreed. Agreed.

Fiona Wise   40:25
Yeah.

Imogen DeVille   40:27
I think that’s like a perfect way to end the podcast, because that’s such a positive way because it is everything you can turn around that isn’t great. You will learn from that situation and then you can just make.

Fiona Wise   40:34
Yes.

Imogen DeVille   40:40
I was gonna say to the quote, but are my brains blank already?

Fiona Wise   40:41
Decisions on that.
I’ve held for too long.

Imogen DeVille   40:45
I mean just because obviously with your experience, everything Fiona in the industry, obviously you’ve you’ve seen the dynamics world grow from the beginning. Essentially when you’re at Microsoft, do you have any final thoughts or advice or anything you want to add?

Fiona Wise   40:54
Yes.
Yeah. So I guess you know final thought.
I mean generally as a final thoughts to the person, I always say be kind to yourself, always really important.

Imogen DeVille   41:08
Love that.

Fiona Wise   41:09
Celebrate the small and big wins. Although I just told myself off because I sometimes don’t.
But I should.

Imogen DeVille   41:14
Yes.

Fiona Wise   41:14
And one of my favorite models, you treat others the way you wish to be treated because I always think that respect, kindness, empathy will never go out of fashion.

Imogen DeVille   41:23
Yeah.

Fiona Wise   41:24
It is so important to be able to do that and also, as I mentioned, don’t be afraid to take in risk.
I’ve made plenty good and bad ones over the years, believe me.
But I think that’s what defines you as true growth and never to look at as failure.

Imogen DeVille   41:34
No.

Fiona Wise   41:40
So yeah, that’s pretty.

Imogen DeVille   41:40
Yeah, I’ll actually love that.
Thank you so, so much, Fiona.
I really, really appreciate your time given the ankle situation and I hope everything.

Fiona Wise   41:49
Dodge leg.

Imogen DeVille   41:50
Yeah. You touch your leg.
Bless you.
Yeah. Good luck with the recovery and everything. And I know that I’ll, I’ll probably speak to you in a couple couple weeks time anyway.

Fiona Wise   41:54
Thank you.

Imogen DeVille   41:58
But yeah, thank you.

Fiona Wise   41:59
Yeah.

Imogen DeVille   41:59
Thank you so much and enjoy the sun if you manage to wheel yourself out in.

Fiona Wise   42:00
Thank you for the time.
I will.

Imogen DeVille   42:05
The.

Fiona Wise   42:05
I will try and will myself out or I crutch it out, one of the two things.

Imogen DeVille   42:08
Yeah. Fantastic.
Really appreciate this.

Fiona Wise   42:11
Thanks for having me, Imogen.
Lovely to see you. Bye.

Imogen DeVille   42:12
Cheers, Fiona. Bye.